Dirty Old Men and Not-Quite-So-Dirty Old Women.
Recently a poker maven and self-labeled mathematical genius in his late 50s has created a bit of a stir by publicly crowing about his prowess in attracting the sexual attentions of very young but (barely) legal women (including a 16 year old runaway). This stir has spilled over into numerous threads, blog entries, cartoons and song parodies on several different websites.
I must admit I find myself perplexed. What is there to crow about when an older man with a very substantial income decides, by his own admission, to devote a portion of that income to supporting a down on her luck young runaway in exchange for sexual access? Truly, guys, does this constitute some kind of trophy? Are you impressed?
Why would a middle-aged man want a 16 year old sexual partner anyway? It is a well-known fact that while men’s sexual potency and performance reach their pinnacles around the age of 19 and then decline fairly steeply, typically women do not reach the peak of their sexual response until the mid-thirties and remain at or near that peak for many years. So why would a man in his 50s want a partner who is many years away from her sexual ripening? A 16 year old girl can appeal to a 16 year old boy, but what does she have to offer a man in his 50s? The typical 16 year old girl is simply just plain not all that good in bed. I never met the 16 year old runaway, but I have met Poker Maven’s current (very) young lady, and while she struck me as a perfectly decent young woman, she is not centerfold-level eye candy, just an ordinary, average, everyday kinda gal.Â
So Poker Maven opens his wallet, some more or less average young ladies open their legs, what’s there to beat chests about?
In the interest of full disclosure now that I have ragged on Poker Maven, I have to admit that my preference runs to younger men, but not THAT young. I have a rule that any man that I have sex with has to be at least several years older than my son, and in the last decade or so since I have been alone, I have actually had to enforce that rule a couple of times. Right now that would put the “young” limit at about 30-35. More usually my preferred age range is about 5-10 years younger than I am–which would put the prime age about 50-55. Now the reason for my preference is plain. Alas, the older the man the more likely he is to be a candidate for Viagra. That’s just nature.
It’s not that I discriminate completely against men my age or older. I do have one dear friend with benefits who is four and a half years older than I am. But our “beneficial” friendship goes all the way back to when I was in my freshman year and he was in his early twenties and it was way cool to be seeing an “older” man–and I am still seeing him to this very day (or at least month).Â
As much as I favor younger men now, so I preferred the older ones when I was young. When I was 13, I started a year and a half long relationship with a guy who was 22 (note: he was in his 20s, not his 50s). Yeah, we both knew I was jailbait, but today’s concern with pedophilia didn’t exist in the same way back then. Looking back, I consider this a positive aspect of my life, but then I was lucky and didn’t get pregnant or contract some loathesome disease. Being an adolescent, while I knew these problems could occur, I didn’t really believe that they would occur–and they didn’t. If they had, it would have been a disaster, but they didn’t so, oh, well. Years later when I was home from Penn for the winter holidays, I had a reunion with this fellow. We were sitting up on the mountain in the snow, and I asked him what he, a grown man, saw in a 13 year old girl. He replied, “Mimi, you were never 13″–whatever that means.Â
I should add that my positive feelings about this relationship kept me from stroking out when my 16 year old son took a “woman” ten years his senior to his high school prom. I figured it wouldn’t take him long to figure out that she was the poster child for immaturity–she wanted him to buy her acreage for a llama ranch–and it didn’t.
BTW if you have read this far and are wondering how a little old lady, more than plump and with gray hair, who never had a hot moment in her life (my beneficial friend says I was cute, but I think he’s being kind), manages to attract men 25 years her junior, well, I am not entirely sure myself, but I do have some thoughts on that topic which I will write about in my next entry in which I will also consider what it is that Poker Maven has against intellectual women.
Â
Â
Â
December 13th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
Glad to see you’re posting again, LOL…
I like what you wrote but I think you are perpetuating a common misconception: that men care about what age a girl “sexually matures.” We don’t. We usually like what is most visually appealing. Whether that is a 16 year old or a 35 year old is irrelevant.
If we’re just talking about sex, I’d much rather have an inexperienced 18 yr. old whom I find incredibly attractive than a cute 35 year old who’s great in bed.
If we’re talking about relationships, of course other factors come into play.
But on the whole, men are attracted to younger women. It’s not right or wrong, it just is.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Hi LOL, interesting post. So are you saying that your 22 year old paramour was less in the wrong than Mr. Poker Patron? HE actually thought the girl was 20, and once he found out she was 16 he shooed her away apparently…much less suspect an action than knowingly dating a child. Or is it just his air of bragging that irks you?
Anyway, we miss you over on 2+2…maybe you could sneak back with a gimmick account…Noone would have to know…and if you wanna sell me any llama ranch acreage, let me know!
December 13th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Obviously I am not a man and can only guess at a male perspective. I know that men are aroused through their eyes, but I have also heard men complain about very attractive young women who have disappointed in bed. One comment I remember was that having sex with one of these very young ladies was like screwing a rolled up carpet. I agree with your last statement to some extent, except I am going to quibble about “on the whole.” There is a very definite (and fairly sizable) subset of men who prefer women who are older than they are, particularly women who are in some sort of position of authority.
Of course, the underlying biology would dictate that men direct their sexual activities toward women who are in their prime childbearing years. Since men are capable of fathering children as long as they are capable of having penetrative vaginal intercourse with ejaculation (although I have always suspected that some of these much older men who father children had a little help from their friends), there is a natural reason for older men to approach younger women for sex. But there is a big difference between a 16 year old girl and one in her twenties, and it is not just a matter of experience. It is a matter of sexual maturation. There is such a thing as a good-looking carpet, but I really don’t know why a man would want one.
There is an old joke that goes, “How can you tell if a woman has had an orgasm?” and the answer is “Why would you want to know?” From my point of view a man who is only interested in a sexual partner’s appearance may very well be shortchanging himself sexually. But, as I say, I am not a man, and if women are a mystery to men (so it appears to be), then the mystery also runs in the other direction.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Hi GA–
Yes, the air of bragging bothers me. While sexual encounters are always a form of exchange, both parties giving something to get something, it struck me as unseemly to be bragging about having a sexual relationship with a very vulnerable young runaway in which money was the medium of exchange. From what I understand this young girl was not a prostitute looking for custom, but a runaway needing support and shelter. I don’t see anything worth bragging about in giving her shelter and support with a sexual quid pro quo. If the two developed a relationship beyond the exchange of sex for shelter and support, that is to the good. But it still isn’t something to brag about.
My 22 year old friend back in the day was in the wrong and could well have found himself in the slammer. From my point of view, because I was very lucky, I look back on this as a positive experience for me and I do not regret it–quite to the contrary. However, the attitude in those days toward sexual contact with young people under the age of consent was not quite the same as it is today. It wasn’t exactly condoned, but it wasn’t spoken about either or condemned out of hand either. I very seriously doubt that the term pedophilia would have been routinely applied to sexual congress with a person past puberty but under the age of consent. It was legally statutory rape–and that word had an air of a “technical” violation about it.
For an analogous situation, take the current understanding of child abuse. When I was young the majority of people would have considered raising a child without occasional physical discipline to be abusing that child, that is, allowing the child to run wild to his/her detriment. There were a few parents who didn’t spank (mine being among them), but absolutely no one would have categorized a spanking as an act of violent abuse as many do today.
When I was young there were plenty of “funny” uncles, and they were just taken in stride. Not so today, of course. Don’t get me wrong. Young people in those days often had very negative experiences when they were sexualized prematurely by adults. It shouldn’t have happened and it should have been addressed vigorously. The stories of those who were molested years ago by priests and who are just now coming forward because at the time the incidents happened people were not on guard about pedophilia demonstrate the scope of the problem. I was just very very lucky–and I did consent entirely. There was never any coercion, either physical or by giving me desperately needed support which otherwise might have been unavailable.
December 24th, 2006 at 5:15 am
I’m not a million miles away from the age of either PokerMaven or yourself — I’m 51 or 52, and I’ve never actually had a sexual partner whose age was any further than four years away from my own.
This is probably because I’m looking for more than just sex in my relationships, and when I was younger at least, I found women’s minds at least as attractive as their bodies.
As I get older though, I’ve started to see the attraction of very young women. It seems to me that this attraction is grounded in a number of things:
Firstly, the biological urge to reproduce has to be hardwired in some way. Given that, a preference for women at their most fertile must be in some sense innate, though it can obviously be overdetermined by culture, experience, etc.
Secondly, there’s scarcity. As a teenager, I had no interest in teenage girls because they were plentiful and easily accessible to me. The older I get, the clearer it is that such women will never be attracted to me for my looks or my personality. Resources and status are the only commodities I have in that negotiation.
Finally, young people — of both sexes — have an aesthetic appeal that’s grounded in their youth, their vitality, their enthusiasm and lack of cynicism. While I couldn’t see that when I was younger, the older I get, the clearer it becomes.
I was around at a friends house last night — this is a woman who does HIV prevention and drugs work with sex workers, and she was telling me about the local brothels in our area. It occurred to me that — though I’ve never actually been with a prostitute, when I get to an age when it all stops working without the aid of artificial assistance, I’ll probably pay a visit to one of these brothels. Just one, mind, for the experience, before it all goes south on me — I’m guessing I’ve got another seven or eight years or so.
Youth will unquestionably be a major criteria in determining which woman I’ll choose to do business with.
December 24th, 2006 at 5:21 am
After reading the ‘Clarification’ post, I just assumed that you’d chosen the theme, and you’d chosen it precisely because of the Georgia O’Keefe-esq associations.
You’ve got that kid well trained, mom.
December 24th, 2006 at 5:21 am
Oops. That response should have gone on another thread.
December 24th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
Your comments about now finding very young women appealing remind me of something an old friend of mine once said. At the beginning of each term, the very young women who sit in the front of the class, clad in inappropriately skimpy attire, catch his eye. Until he reads their first papers….
I myself have the “cringe” test. If a man makes me cringe every time he opens his moouth, I lose all sexual interest, no matter how young and physically attractive he might be.
Perhaps I haven’t yet reached the age where 19 year olds, who are supposedly at their sexual peak, turn me on. What you see as vitality, enthusiasm, and lack of cynicism, I tend to see as immaturity, inexperience, and callowness. Maybe I am just a grumpy old pessimist, but I would rather be celibate than lie down with the typical 19 year old poker dude. Of course I can’t imagine any of them wanting to lie down with me. OTOH mid-thirties to mid-fifties is just fine as far as I am concerned.
As for your brothel scenario, a woman I know once suggested that she and I go to a brothel in Amsterdam that caters to heterosexual women. We never did go, so I can’t give a trip report. But now I will think about just what sort of guy I would choose if I were doing the choosing.
January 14th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Julia and Tatiana say “High Five” !! And much Da Nang….!!